One of the big benefits of not being particularly religious is that I never have to worry about stuff like this. I figure that whatever god there is will eventually sort out all of these questions that arguably don’t (or shouldn’t) matter in the least.
Thanks. For me, it's not worry. I like thought exercises. And, of course, I'm fascinated by the current hypocrisies so prevalent on the right. The airwaves are inundated with Republican anti-trans stuff.
Thank you Charles. Your post sounds like the last Catholic Priest I had for bible study about 10 years ago. We studied what Jesus actually said about marriage and sex and found what you found. The Church, according to our Priest, encourages these discussions and discoveries. I find it fascinating that the evangelicals have taken this book of stories and chosen to make such a mess of such a simple thing.
Thanks! The Catholic Church is interesting because it is so vast. There's room for a lot of discussion, and there are many branches where lots of interesting things happen or are discussed. Thanks for sharing this.
Thought provoking and a loaded topic! Great read, Charles. I was raised Catholic and I’m a Catholic by choice as well. But, I don’t think I’m the puritan type or a moralist for that matter. But, I do believe in a moral code (principles and values) that may be differ from others and that’s okay! I think the sexual behavior in a society has often been correlated at times with the decline of civilizations in the past as the moral code of a society erodes and chaos/ anarchy sets in. Nothing is sacred, it’s a free for all type of mentality with no personal accountability for anything! I wonder how far away are we from when bestiality becomes acceptable? What I see in our modern times is frightening! And, it’s permeating in every aspect of society.
Thanks! I hope it wasn't offensive to someone more traditionally minded. I came from that background, too. Then rejected it, and was led back in very powerfully. I appreciate your take on this, thanks again.
No, Charles! It’s not offensive at all! You’ve made some great points. I’m just concerned about where we are at as a human race. The sexual behavior and practices of a community/society is telling. I have to confess that I understand the relationship of a man with a man and a woman with a woman. However, I don’t understand very well the bisexual or trans community. I’m definitely not against them, but that’s where things begin to feel more murky for me.
I understand. I grew up quite the traditionalist. When I went to college I met my first gay friend (everyone was in the closet in those days). I learned a lot from him, about how it's not a choice, etc. He was very comfortable in his own skin for that era. I guess in a way, he was ahead of his time.
I look at the other stuff the same way I look at things like open marriages or a promiscuous lifestyle. Not to compare them with that, but instead just as something that isn't in my nature.
For me, morals aren't established by sexual identity or lifestyle, they're established by how we treat one another. If someone has a freewheeling sex life, or is bi, or whatever, and they treat other people well, then, I don't care. If they lead a lifestyle like that but it's hidden and they claim some kind of higher moral authority, like many Republicans do, that is a high moral crime to me.
One of the reasons I was turned off by the church is the high incidence of moral depravity on the part of priests, and how they were protected for years by the Vatican. The same thing happened in the Baptist church. To me, there is great immorality when an institution screams for piety but allows these things to happen without major consequences. There have been consequences lately, but it's been forced upon them from the outside. I'm now attending an Episcopal church whose reverend is a woman, and she's pretty fantastic. She also has a great singing voice, which is nice for those kinds of services.
If it's any comfort, the morals weren't better when the Christian church began. In those days, they worried more about things like incest, which seems to have been fairly routine those days. So, slowly, progress has been made! :-)
One of the big benefits of not being particularly religious is that I never have to worry about stuff like this. I figure that whatever god there is will eventually sort out all of these questions that arguably don’t (or shouldn’t) matter in the least.
Thanks. For me, it's not worry. I like thought exercises. And, of course, I'm fascinated by the current hypocrisies so prevalent on the right. The airwaves are inundated with Republican anti-trans stuff.
Thank you Charles. Your post sounds like the last Catholic Priest I had for bible study about 10 years ago. We studied what Jesus actually said about marriage and sex and found what you found. The Church, according to our Priest, encourages these discussions and discoveries. I find it fascinating that the evangelicals have taken this book of stories and chosen to make such a mess of such a simple thing.
Thank you again.
Please keep writing.
You are amazing!
All the best,
David
Thanks! The Catholic Church is interesting because it is so vast. There's room for a lot of discussion, and there are many branches where lots of interesting things happen or are discussed. Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks ... I always love it when someone makes me think anew.
Thanks!
Thought provoking and a loaded topic! Great read, Charles. I was raised Catholic and I’m a Catholic by choice as well. But, I don’t think I’m the puritan type or a moralist for that matter. But, I do believe in a moral code (principles and values) that may be differ from others and that’s okay! I think the sexual behavior in a society has often been correlated at times with the decline of civilizations in the past as the moral code of a society erodes and chaos/ anarchy sets in. Nothing is sacred, it’s a free for all type of mentality with no personal accountability for anything! I wonder how far away are we from when bestiality becomes acceptable? What I see in our modern times is frightening! And, it’s permeating in every aspect of society.
Thanks! I hope it wasn't offensive to someone more traditionally minded. I came from that background, too. Then rejected it, and was led back in very powerfully. I appreciate your take on this, thanks again.
No, Charles! It’s not offensive at all! You’ve made some great points. I’m just concerned about where we are at as a human race. The sexual behavior and practices of a community/society is telling. I have to confess that I understand the relationship of a man with a man and a woman with a woman. However, I don’t understand very well the bisexual or trans community. I’m definitely not against them, but that’s where things begin to feel more murky for me.
I understand. I grew up quite the traditionalist. When I went to college I met my first gay friend (everyone was in the closet in those days). I learned a lot from him, about how it's not a choice, etc. He was very comfortable in his own skin for that era. I guess in a way, he was ahead of his time.
I look at the other stuff the same way I look at things like open marriages or a promiscuous lifestyle. Not to compare them with that, but instead just as something that isn't in my nature.
For me, morals aren't established by sexual identity or lifestyle, they're established by how we treat one another. If someone has a freewheeling sex life, or is bi, or whatever, and they treat other people well, then, I don't care. If they lead a lifestyle like that but it's hidden and they claim some kind of higher moral authority, like many Republicans do, that is a high moral crime to me.
One of the reasons I was turned off by the church is the high incidence of moral depravity on the part of priests, and how they were protected for years by the Vatican. The same thing happened in the Baptist church. To me, there is great immorality when an institution screams for piety but allows these things to happen without major consequences. There have been consequences lately, but it's been forced upon them from the outside. I'm now attending an Episcopal church whose reverend is a woman, and she's pretty fantastic. She also has a great singing voice, which is nice for those kinds of services.
If it's any comfort, the morals weren't better when the Christian church began. In those days, they worried more about things like incest, which seems to have been fairly routine those days. So, slowly, progress has been made! :-)
Thank you, as always, Ali. :-) I'm glad you liked it.