What would Christianity look like today if the role of women had not been plundered by the misogynist and patriarchal men who have dominated most of Christian history?
“It isn’t surprising that atheists are enraged every time they see a mention of Jesus or God. Atheists understand hypocrisy.⁵ The vast majority of them are much closer to Jesus’ original teachings than fundamentalist lunatics like Hegseth.”
(Most) atheists also have and understand ethics. In organized, American Christianity, especially in those people who adhere to fundamentalist and literal Bible interpretations (which is *literally* impossible to do), “ethics” seem shifty, overtly self serving, loaded with hypocrisy and based on a false hierarchy that is destroying the very earth and creations they claim god made (and it’s ultimately suicidal - humans live on the planet they’re destroying).
Dogma is paramount to most Christians (it appears), and dogma, to me, is a patriarchal construct, manmade to perpetuate the notion that (white) males have dominion over (and therefore can do whatever they want) to any- and everything (women, children, the land, its creatures and their habitats, the air, water, and even what’s underneath the earth - and now they want to build a nuclear reactor on the moon???… etc)
I cringe when I hear Christianity and god and Jesus when used as a reason to subjugate, destroy, marginalize, disempower and hate. I sorta think Jesus would cringe, too, just knowing what little I know about the guy.
There are no ethics in organized religion that I'm aware of. Buddhism, maybe? But I don't know much about Buddhism, so maybe not that, either.
I was atheist most of my life. Sometimes things happen to us that affect us deeply, so that changed for me, but the reason I'm against most forms of religion is because you can't be taught who or what to believe. It always comes from inside. Who am I to tell you how to believe (or not)? What do I know about you that gives me that right? I have experienced nothing of what you have.
Evangelicalism is a form of insanity, IMO.
And I hope this post doesn't come across as evangelicalism, because I'm only interested in shutting down the voices of the Hegseths of the world, not in promoting my own personal Jesus.
It doesn’t at all come across that way. You hit the nail on the head: “Who am I to tell you how to believe (or not)? What do I know about you that gives me that right“. Live and let live. Do unto others.
This is what has always pissed me off; why do people think they can impose their beliefs, fears, opinions on ANYone? Like, gay marriage (or homosexuality at all) - if it’s not physically affecting you and no one’s getting hurt, why do you *care so much*, you sanctimonious right wingnuts?
So, I heard this “parable” of sorts. All the various messiahs/“chosen ones”/sages of all faiths are gathered together and locked in a room for a week. All of their apostles/disciples are also gathered together and locked in a room for a week.
After a week, the first door is unlocked and there are the messiah figures yukking it up, talking philosophy and having a good ol’time.
The door to the other room is unlocked and: only a few people are still standing. Blood is everywhere and they are screaming at each other.
I see this as a message that however you “get there”, it’s your journey and there are many different paths. The various saviors “get it”. It’s not a competition. It’s a personal journey that is chosen from within each individual.
What happens is that the people who choose a path start thinking theirs is the Only Right One, and they convert/kill/enslave/subjugate all others who don’t adhere to that path.
And add political power to those Right Ones, you have serious abuse. That’s a reason our forefathers considered separation of church and state so important. Trump and his henchmen are destroying the fabric of what this country used to stand for.
Exactly! I like to write about "messiahs" in my fiction, too. The topic fascinates me. Sometimes I write comedic fiction (a story about a Cat Jesus) and sometimes more serious (a dolphin).
"We can never truly be certain that neither of his sisters did, unless some lucky archaeologist uncovers one, probably looking for something else in the archaeological riches of the Holy Land. "
Anything written by women of the time could possibly have been falsely and intentionally ascribed to men rather than completely destroyed. Such was the custom of those days and for centuries, as you've noted in respect to patriarchal attitudes.
Several biblical books were deliberately "lost" (not included) when the Bible was being collated by the "Church". I'd like to read those books. The Bible, as is, cannot be seen as complete and that is beyond frustrating to those who seek the Truth.
I think some were. Mostly from that era's one percent. A lot of early churches were presided over by women, according to some scholars -- in their homes. They must have known how to read scripture, so they were able to use their position in society to get an education, or at least read. What happened to all that, I can't say. Women's role in churches got usurped by the patriarchy somehow. But I'm not an ancient history scholar, so I don't really know the specifics. I have a good friend who is. I should ask him what he thinks.
Oh wow. Thank you for being so gracious! I have been frantically trying to delete this nasty comment… but am all thumbs on the mobile app. I appreciate your niceness - because my reply was uncalled for.
Thanks. I've done that exact thing many times. Including the search frantically part. I completely understand the atheist position. Was the same way myself for a long time. And evangelicalism sucks. We all make our own way through this world. Nobody has the right to force their version of god on us.
Sorry if this upset you. There are always good reasons why religious screeds upset people. It's why I don't do it often. Hegseth pissed me off because he so directly opposes my values. So I had to say something.
Thank you! 🙏 I think I understand where you are coming from. And if you think Hegseth is wrong, your heart is in the right place. And at the end of the day, that is what matters. Kindness. Grace. Which you have manifested so beautifully.
“It isn’t surprising that atheists are enraged every time they see a mention of Jesus or God. Atheists understand hypocrisy.⁵ The vast majority of them are much closer to Jesus’ original teachings than fundamentalist lunatics like Hegseth.”
(Most) atheists also have and understand ethics. In organized, American Christianity, especially in those people who adhere to fundamentalist and literal Bible interpretations (which is *literally* impossible to do), “ethics” seem shifty, overtly self serving, loaded with hypocrisy and based on a false hierarchy that is destroying the very earth and creations they claim god made (and it’s ultimately suicidal - humans live on the planet they’re destroying).
Dogma is paramount to most Christians (it appears), and dogma, to me, is a patriarchal construct, manmade to perpetuate the notion that (white) males have dominion over (and therefore can do whatever they want) to any- and everything (women, children, the land, its creatures and their habitats, the air, water, and even what’s underneath the earth - and now they want to build a nuclear reactor on the moon???… etc)
I cringe when I hear Christianity and god and Jesus when used as a reason to subjugate, destroy, marginalize, disempower and hate. I sorta think Jesus would cringe, too, just knowing what little I know about the guy.
There are no ethics in organized religion that I'm aware of. Buddhism, maybe? But I don't know much about Buddhism, so maybe not that, either.
I was atheist most of my life. Sometimes things happen to us that affect us deeply, so that changed for me, but the reason I'm against most forms of religion is because you can't be taught who or what to believe. It always comes from inside. Who am I to tell you how to believe (or not)? What do I know about you that gives me that right? I have experienced nothing of what you have.
Evangelicalism is a form of insanity, IMO.
And I hope this post doesn't come across as evangelicalism, because I'm only interested in shutting down the voices of the Hegseths of the world, not in promoting my own personal Jesus.
It doesn’t at all come across that way. You hit the nail on the head: “Who am I to tell you how to believe (or not)? What do I know about you that gives me that right“. Live and let live. Do unto others.
This is what has always pissed me off; why do people think they can impose their beliefs, fears, opinions on ANYone? Like, gay marriage (or homosexuality at all) - if it’s not physically affecting you and no one’s getting hurt, why do you *care so much*, you sanctimonious right wingnuts?
So, I heard this “parable” of sorts. All the various messiahs/“chosen ones”/sages of all faiths are gathered together and locked in a room for a week. All of their apostles/disciples are also gathered together and locked in a room for a week.
After a week, the first door is unlocked and there are the messiah figures yukking it up, talking philosophy and having a good ol’time.
The door to the other room is unlocked and: only a few people are still standing. Blood is everywhere and they are screaming at each other.
I see this as a message that however you “get there”, it’s your journey and there are many different paths. The various saviors “get it”. It’s not a competition. It’s a personal journey that is chosen from within each individual.
What happens is that the people who choose a path start thinking theirs is the Only Right One, and they convert/kill/enslave/subjugate all others who don’t adhere to that path.
And add political power to those Right Ones, you have serious abuse. That’s a reason our forefathers considered separation of church and state so important. Trump and his henchmen are destroying the fabric of what this country used to stand for.
Exactly! I like to write about "messiahs" in my fiction, too. The topic fascinates me. Sometimes I write comedic fiction (a story about a Cat Jesus) and sometimes more serious (a dolphin).
Cheers!
"We can never truly be certain that neither of his sisters did, unless some lucky archaeologist uncovers one, probably looking for something else in the archaeological riches of the Holy Land. "
Anything written by women of the time could possibly have been falsely and intentionally ascribed to men rather than completely destroyed. Such was the custom of those days and for centuries, as you've noted in respect to patriarchal attitudes.
Several biblical books were deliberately "lost" (not included) when the Bible was being collated by the "Church". I'd like to read those books. The Bible, as is, cannot be seen as complete and that is beyond frustrating to those who seek the Truth.
That, too. Women in that society were treated much like they are by the Taliban in our era.
Were girls given the opportunity to go to school and learn to read and write at that time? Did they learn in secret?
I think some were. Mostly from that era's one percent. A lot of early churches were presided over by women, according to some scholars -- in their homes. They must have known how to read scripture, so they were able to use their position in society to get an education, or at least read. What happened to all that, I can't say. Women's role in churches got usurped by the patriarchy somehow. But I'm not an ancient history scholar, so I don't really know the specifics. I have a good friend who is. I should ask him what he thinks.
Such a waste. Totally wrong-headed. Wasteful of potential.
Women can create new humans within their bodies. I challenge men to do the same. Where is the reverence for this miracle?
Why am I supposed to “chill,” exactly? And do atheists really care if you “love” us? Sounds like a sad party that you are grudgingly inviting us to.
Sorry. Perhaps I have wrongly taken offense. But if this long disquisition on your imaginary friend isn’t meant for atheists, why address us at all?
Anger is too justified these days for me to take offense.
Oh wow. Thank you for being so gracious! I have been frantically trying to delete this nasty comment… but am all thumbs on the mobile app. I appreciate your niceness - because my reply was uncalled for.
Thanks. I've done that exact thing many times. Including the search frantically part. I completely understand the atheist position. Was the same way myself for a long time. And evangelicalism sucks. We all make our own way through this world. Nobody has the right to force their version of god on us.
Sorry if this upset you. There are always good reasons why religious screeds upset people. It's why I don't do it often. Hegseth pissed me off because he so directly opposes my values. So I had to say something.
Thank you! 🙏 I think I understand where you are coming from. And if you think Hegseth is wrong, your heart is in the right place. And at the end of the day, that is what matters. Kindness. Grace. Which you have manifested so beautifully.