I’m 85, but when I was young, I was groped, touched by men inappropriately, and raped at gunpoint by my then husband. Most women I know have been subjected to similar types of behavior. Those of us who worked before the sexual harassment of women became noticed and made HR awareness mandatory were harassed and/or treated as ‘less than’ by men.
It would be wonderful if more decent men stood up like you have done. Women are 51% of the population, but we were treated horribly. It’s way past time for men to get blamed for rape instead of the female victims.
I did not enjoy hitting the “like” button here, but I appreciate the share.
I had two unsubscribe notices almost the minute this post was released. I expect more. We have a long, long way to go. I’m sure where the answer lie other than just keep chipping away at it, but also doing more to teach our sons better. I was lucky. My son seemed sort of born with it. I don’t know what modern schools do in this regard. My guess is not enough.
My son had three older sisters who taught him how to treat girls. He is good to his wife and children, even though his father was not. He is also good to me. He works near my home, and comes over regularly to take out my trash and make repairs.
Sisters are great! My sister is awesome and was when I was growing up. As helpful as your son's sisters were, though, I suspect mom had a little influence on his attitude towards women, too, but of course, I wasn't there. :-)
Excellent article, Charles. Thank you so much for writing this most important and stunning piece. I wish more men would understand why ‘not all men’ can result in a smack upside the head.
It seems that men’s behaviour has no limits. Women have known this. It’s not decreasing in hate by incels, it’s increasing beyond imagination. I’m glad I’m older, so men don’t look at me the same anymore. But I continue to be fearful, as most women, when by myself. Especially with my impaired mobility. One of the things women are told (by RCMP) is to ‘Run’ if you encounter someone suspicious when out walking. Sure. You bet. Here I go.
It makes me furious.
It’s also about men becoming more active in protecting women from ‘locker room talk.’ Not saying anything when a woman is being disrespected or degraded makes you complicit. Most men are complicit. ‘It was just a joke’ was not usually.
And Naomi said to Ruth, her daughter-in-law, “It is good, my daughter, that you go out with his young men, lest in another field you be assaulted.”
It all started with the myth of Adam and Eve. Wonder who invented and wrote that in the bible? Hmm, I wonder who. Adam, the superior, who grows a woman from his rib. Sure. Eve, the inferior, ate a fucking apple and was thrown out of Eden? The harlot!! And people wonder why women have become so angry since Eve. This isn’t a new thing. Women have been angry for a long time.
Too long a response, but you raised so many good points. Thank you for being a solid and compassionate human being. Respect!
Thanks. Never too long a response. Especially on such an important topic. Crappy behavior towards women has always annoyed me. Even when I was young, and I’d see construction crews catcalling women in downtown chicago. That’s just one, very obvious example. Thanks again.
I cannot even imagine fantasizing about rape, marital or otherwise, nor would I EVER wish to see videos of it. I am 70 years old and can assure you that I have NEVER had such thoughts. I do agree that men are the problem, which is such an elementary observation that I shouldn't even have to say it. It pains me to think that there is a subset of men who fantasize and may even act on these impulses, and it further pains me that I might be viewed as a possible abuser of women simply because I have a penis. When our three kids were young, I never drove the babysitters home -- my wife did. I never wanted them to feel uncomfortable being alone in a car with me (and it went both ways: I never wanted to be falsely accused of putting the moves on a girl.)
There is a popular walking and jogging spot in our smallish city, over 300 acres of forested trails. I used to walk there quite often, and even as a man I could picture being accosted by someone jumping from behind a tree. I would try to imagine what it would be like for a woman jogging along the trails fearing the same or worse. So, I would wear bright or recognizable clothing to be seen from a distance rather than clothes which would blend into the surroundings. And whenever I saw one, I made sure to make a lot of noise to let them know I'm approaching them; if one was approaching me, I would give wide berth. Did it make them feel less uncomfortable? I dunno, but hope that it did. Someday soon I will ask my 45-year-old daughter what her experiences have been.
For the past 50+ years, most of my friends have been women. I can count the number of male friends I have on one hand, and if any of them ever, EVER, suggested in some way that they indulge in rape fantasies, or even make jokes about it, we wouldn't be friends any longer.
Me, too, Doug. I wonder how much of it is tied to violence.
The incident I describe is the closest I've ever been to an actual fight in my 67 years of life.
I was lucky, too, because my dad never lifted a finger towards my mom, even though it's fair to say he wasn't particularly nice to her as the marriage trudged on. I honestly could not imagine my dad hitting any woman, especially not my mom, but any woman.
if you're not around it, I have to guess you're less likely to go there yourself. That's one reason I emphasize teaching our kids. The most effective way is by example. For some of us, like you, this comes easy. For others, I guess not.
Same with my dad -- he only had an eighth-grade education and worked a blue collar job all his life, and communication wasn't his strong point, but I remember him telling me many times as a child: you never hit a girl. Never. In fact, throughout my life I can think of no-one whose dad was abusive towards women or girls. That's not to say it didn't happen, only that I'm unaware of anybody. The only exception is our former neighbor (we moved next to her 2 years ago, and she has since moved) who told me that her now-ex-husband was physically abusive to her and her daughters (both adults, both autistic.) I only found out after my telling her one day that I hadn't seen her hubby in a while. Well, she proceeded to tell me about the restraining order, how he was a substance abuser (would get pass-out drunk, and on a couple occasions fall and hit his head badly) and would also be verbally abusive, and other sordid details. At the time I didn't know either of them very well. She and her daughters moved a thousand miles away to be free of him -- I miss her, but not the guy.
Rape is violence, and violence is the pursuit or expression of power, of dominance.
As to raising good men, my wife and I have 2 sons, both brought up to respect girls and women and regard them as equals (and their sister made sure of it.) We lost our eldest son to cancer 5 months ago, but he raised his now-17-year-old son (and only child) the same as he was brought up, and our grandson is an incredibly kind and compassionate person to all.
That all said, I've been called out by several women online in the past for saying what you expressed in your piece: it's not all men. I understand what you meant by that: to women, it is all men (that they need to worry about.) I no longer post that response, but I'll tell you directly that not only do I think it's not all, but also not even close to most men. I've deliberately avoided learning more about this Tate guy (I have the slightest knowledge of him, and don't wish to know more. I only hope that his platform (whatever it is) doesn't influence boys and young men into thinking misogyny and violence against women is acceptable in any way.
I'll finish with a joke my late son would tell when he and my daughter-in-law were expecting. When he was asked if he wanted a girl or a boy, he said “a boy”, with the reason being that if you're the parent of a boy you only have to worry about one penis. If of a girl, you have to worry about all of them.
My experience growing up was unlike like yours. Violence was everywhere. Blue collar chicago in the south burbs. Men, women, children. All violent as hell. Men the most, of course. The only reason I wasn’t violent was because I was fast as all get go. Catch me if you can.
Every woman I’ve known well has experienced abuse of some form or another. Of course, technically, it’s not all men. It can’t be. But it’s men. You’ve done right by women, which is what matters most. But as glad as I am for it, it doesn’t deserve commendation. None of us should get recognition for not hitting a woman, or whatever. Violence against women should be such an exception to the rule that it makes the local news when it happens. That’s the world I think both of us would like to live in.
The problem with the “not all men” argument for me is that the numbers are so large that it’s meaningless to the woman who approaches us on a sidewalk, at any hour of any day, when there are not a lot of people around. Thus, it is all men. If it seems unfair that a woman makes that assumption, it most definitely is not her fault.
Tate has millions of followers. He’s influencing millions of young men and boys, so I feel like someone like me has a responsibility to raise awareness where I can, and maybe some some male figure who actually has a following that matters, something a lot more than my paltry 2k, will by some crazy accident see it and say, “Yeah, I could speak out about this a bit more. I could be louder. I could be more persistent. Have I talked to my son about this? About how to approach a woman he’s interested in? Does my son think it’s a sport? A numbers game?” We need to counter the male toxicity that dominates our culture and is actually growing thanks to guys like Tate and even Joe Rogan, who’s a chest thumper with way too much influence on younger folks.
My post won't make a dent on this problem, but none of my posts make a dent on anything. I post anyway, because maybe someone who really has influence will stumble into what I write and take action on it. If nothing else, it’s now part of the public record, and I’ve said my piece, so that part is cathartic.
Charles, believe me, I seek no credit for not abusing women, far from it. I'd like to think I'm the norm, and not the exception, and in my world I am.
As to Rogan, I had a brief conversation with someone doing some painting for me today. He's apparently right wing. He told me that anyone who refuses to listen to him (that would be me) is close-minded because Rogan talks to everybody no matter their leaning. I asked him if he ever listened to Fresh Air. Never heard of it -- who's on it? Terry Gross, I reply. "OH, TERRY GROSS! I know who she is -- I refuse to listen to her because she will never interview a right winger!" (1. Not true, and 2. Who is being close-minded?) He then went on a mini-rant about how liberals should listen to right wingers. I shut my mouth. (I always try to avoid confrontations with people I don't know very well, and especially people working on a time-and-materials basis.) What I will eventually tell him is that I no longer have any need to try to understand or listen to the Right, certainly from Jan 6 on -- I know where their values lie, and I abhor them.
Yeah, I figure you don’t. The commendation remark was meant as a meta statement.
People who don’t listen to Terry Gross are missing out on a lot. As I’m sure you know, the way Rogan works is this: One like minded bro after another, after another, after another, and then every 50th guest or so he makes a news headline by talking to a normal person. :-) At least he’s turned on Trump, for now, but I don’t expect much out of him.
Thank you. I hope many men read your article and that it causes them to reflect on their own behavior, grasp what you are really saying, and recognize they have the responsibility to speak up and take action when other men disrespect women.
Thanks. I appreciate that. Most of the men who tend to read my posts are already sympathetic to the situation. I don’t figure I’ve got enough of a readership to make a difference, but if I ever do, I’ll repost it! As I said in the article, it’s a great way to cull undesirables. I lost subscribers minutes after I made the post, just as I knew I would.
This was so well written - it's the best response I've read thus far on this whole horrific debacle. Thank you, Charles, for the inescapable logic, passion, and empathy you put into this post.
I’m 85, but when I was young, I was groped, touched by men inappropriately, and raped at gunpoint by my then husband. Most women I know have been subjected to similar types of behavior. Those of us who worked before the sexual harassment of women became noticed and made HR awareness mandatory were harassed and/or treated as ‘less than’ by men.
It would be wonderful if more decent men stood up like you have done. Women are 51% of the population, but we were treated horribly. It’s way past time for men to get blamed for rape instead of the female victims.
I did not enjoy hitting the “like” button here, but I appreciate the share.
I had two unsubscribe notices almost the minute this post was released. I expect more. We have a long, long way to go. I’m sure where the answer lie other than just keep chipping away at it, but also doing more to teach our sons better. I was lucky. My son seemed sort of born with it. I don’t know what modern schools do in this regard. My guess is not enough.
My son had three older sisters who taught him how to treat girls. He is good to his wife and children, even though his father was not. He is also good to me. He works near my home, and comes over regularly to take out my trash and make repairs.
Sisters are great! My sister is awesome and was when I was growing up. As helpful as your son's sisters were, though, I suspect mom had a little influence on his attitude towards women, too, but of course, I wasn't there. :-)
Excellent article, Charles. Thank you so much for writing this most important and stunning piece. I wish more men would understand why ‘not all men’ can result in a smack upside the head.
It seems that men’s behaviour has no limits. Women have known this. It’s not decreasing in hate by incels, it’s increasing beyond imagination. I’m glad I’m older, so men don’t look at me the same anymore. But I continue to be fearful, as most women, when by myself. Especially with my impaired mobility. One of the things women are told (by RCMP) is to ‘Run’ if you encounter someone suspicious when out walking. Sure. You bet. Here I go.
It makes me furious.
It’s also about men becoming more active in protecting women from ‘locker room talk.’ Not saying anything when a woman is being disrespected or degraded makes you complicit. Most men are complicit. ‘It was just a joke’ was not usually.
And Naomi said to Ruth, her daughter-in-law, “It is good, my daughter, that you go out with his young men, lest in another field you be assaulted.”
It all started with the myth of Adam and Eve. Wonder who invented and wrote that in the bible? Hmm, I wonder who. Adam, the superior, who grows a woman from his rib. Sure. Eve, the inferior, ate a fucking apple and was thrown out of Eden? The harlot!! And people wonder why women have become so angry since Eve. This isn’t a new thing. Women have been angry for a long time.
Too long a response, but you raised so many good points. Thank you for being a solid and compassionate human being. Respect!
Thanks. Never too long a response. Especially on such an important topic. Crappy behavior towards women has always annoyed me. Even when I was young, and I’d see construction crews catcalling women in downtown chicago. That’s just one, very obvious example. Thanks again.
🦋🦋
Not a Man
A man is not a man
If he abuses a man, a woman, or a child.
A man is not a man
If he abuses a man, a woman, or a child.
A man may look like a man
But can be not a man.
If that is the case,
He is of no real use to anyone,
Unless it is to another
Not a man.
I cannot even imagine fantasizing about rape, marital or otherwise, nor would I EVER wish to see videos of it. I am 70 years old and can assure you that I have NEVER had such thoughts. I do agree that men are the problem, which is such an elementary observation that I shouldn't even have to say it. It pains me to think that there is a subset of men who fantasize and may even act on these impulses, and it further pains me that I might be viewed as a possible abuser of women simply because I have a penis. When our three kids were young, I never drove the babysitters home -- my wife did. I never wanted them to feel uncomfortable being alone in a car with me (and it went both ways: I never wanted to be falsely accused of putting the moves on a girl.)
There is a popular walking and jogging spot in our smallish city, over 300 acres of forested trails. I used to walk there quite often, and even as a man I could picture being accosted by someone jumping from behind a tree. I would try to imagine what it would be like for a woman jogging along the trails fearing the same or worse. So, I would wear bright or recognizable clothing to be seen from a distance rather than clothes which would blend into the surroundings. And whenever I saw one, I made sure to make a lot of noise to let them know I'm approaching them; if one was approaching me, I would give wide berth. Did it make them feel less uncomfortable? I dunno, but hope that it did. Someday soon I will ask my 45-year-old daughter what her experiences have been.
For the past 50+ years, most of my friends have been women. I can count the number of male friends I have on one hand, and if any of them ever, EVER, suggested in some way that they indulge in rape fantasies, or even make jokes about it, we wouldn't be friends any longer.
Me, too, Doug. I wonder how much of it is tied to violence.
The incident I describe is the closest I've ever been to an actual fight in my 67 years of life.
I was lucky, too, because my dad never lifted a finger towards my mom, even though it's fair to say he wasn't particularly nice to her as the marriage trudged on. I honestly could not imagine my dad hitting any woman, especially not my mom, but any woman.
if you're not around it, I have to guess you're less likely to go there yourself. That's one reason I emphasize teaching our kids. The most effective way is by example. For some of us, like you, this comes easy. For others, I guess not.
Same with my dad -- he only had an eighth-grade education and worked a blue collar job all his life, and communication wasn't his strong point, but I remember him telling me many times as a child: you never hit a girl. Never. In fact, throughout my life I can think of no-one whose dad was abusive towards women or girls. That's not to say it didn't happen, only that I'm unaware of anybody. The only exception is our former neighbor (we moved next to her 2 years ago, and she has since moved) who told me that her now-ex-husband was physically abusive to her and her daughters (both adults, both autistic.) I only found out after my telling her one day that I hadn't seen her hubby in a while. Well, she proceeded to tell me about the restraining order, how he was a substance abuser (would get pass-out drunk, and on a couple occasions fall and hit his head badly) and would also be verbally abusive, and other sordid details. At the time I didn't know either of them very well. She and her daughters moved a thousand miles away to be free of him -- I miss her, but not the guy.
Rape is violence, and violence is the pursuit or expression of power, of dominance.
As to raising good men, my wife and I have 2 sons, both brought up to respect girls and women and regard them as equals (and their sister made sure of it.) We lost our eldest son to cancer 5 months ago, but he raised his now-17-year-old son (and only child) the same as he was brought up, and our grandson is an incredibly kind and compassionate person to all.
That all said, I've been called out by several women online in the past for saying what you expressed in your piece: it's not all men. I understand what you meant by that: to women, it is all men (that they need to worry about.) I no longer post that response, but I'll tell you directly that not only do I think it's not all, but also not even close to most men. I've deliberately avoided learning more about this Tate guy (I have the slightest knowledge of him, and don't wish to know more. I only hope that his platform (whatever it is) doesn't influence boys and young men into thinking misogyny and violence against women is acceptable in any way.
I'll finish with a joke my late son would tell when he and my daughter-in-law were expecting. When he was asked if he wanted a girl or a boy, he said “a boy”, with the reason being that if you're the parent of a boy you only have to worry about one penis. If of a girl, you have to worry about all of them.
Thanks, Doug.
My experience growing up was unlike like yours. Violence was everywhere. Blue collar chicago in the south burbs. Men, women, children. All violent as hell. Men the most, of course. The only reason I wasn’t violent was because I was fast as all get go. Catch me if you can.
Every woman I’ve known well has experienced abuse of some form or another. Of course, technically, it’s not all men. It can’t be. But it’s men. You’ve done right by women, which is what matters most. But as glad as I am for it, it doesn’t deserve commendation. None of us should get recognition for not hitting a woman, or whatever. Violence against women should be such an exception to the rule that it makes the local news when it happens. That’s the world I think both of us would like to live in.
The problem with the “not all men” argument for me is that the numbers are so large that it’s meaningless to the woman who approaches us on a sidewalk, at any hour of any day, when there are not a lot of people around. Thus, it is all men. If it seems unfair that a woman makes that assumption, it most definitely is not her fault.
Tate has millions of followers. He’s influencing millions of young men and boys, so I feel like someone like me has a responsibility to raise awareness where I can, and maybe some some male figure who actually has a following that matters, something a lot more than my paltry 2k, will by some crazy accident see it and say, “Yeah, I could speak out about this a bit more. I could be louder. I could be more persistent. Have I talked to my son about this? About how to approach a woman he’s interested in? Does my son think it’s a sport? A numbers game?” We need to counter the male toxicity that dominates our culture and is actually growing thanks to guys like Tate and even Joe Rogan, who’s a chest thumper with way too much influence on younger folks.
My post won't make a dent on this problem, but none of my posts make a dent on anything. I post anyway, because maybe someone who really has influence will stumble into what I write and take action on it. If nothing else, it’s now part of the public record, and I’ve said my piece, so that part is cathartic.
Charles, believe me, I seek no credit for not abusing women, far from it. I'd like to think I'm the norm, and not the exception, and in my world I am.
As to Rogan, I had a brief conversation with someone doing some painting for me today. He's apparently right wing. He told me that anyone who refuses to listen to him (that would be me) is close-minded because Rogan talks to everybody no matter their leaning. I asked him if he ever listened to Fresh Air. Never heard of it -- who's on it? Terry Gross, I reply. "OH, TERRY GROSS! I know who she is -- I refuse to listen to her because she will never interview a right winger!" (1. Not true, and 2. Who is being close-minded?) He then went on a mini-rant about how liberals should listen to right wingers. I shut my mouth. (I always try to avoid confrontations with people I don't know very well, and especially people working on a time-and-materials basis.) What I will eventually tell him is that I no longer have any need to try to understand or listen to the Right, certainly from Jan 6 on -- I know where their values lie, and I abhor them.
Yeah, I figure you don’t. The commendation remark was meant as a meta statement.
People who don’t listen to Terry Gross are missing out on a lot. As I’m sure you know, the way Rogan works is this: One like minded bro after another, after another, after another, and then every 50th guest or so he makes a news headline by talking to a normal person. :-) At least he’s turned on Trump, for now, but I don’t expect much out of him.
Thank you. I hope many men read your article and that it causes them to reflect on their own behavior, grasp what you are really saying, and recognize they have the responsibility to speak up and take action when other men disrespect women.
Thanks. I appreciate that. Most of the men who tend to read my posts are already sympathetic to the situation. I don’t figure I’ve got enough of a readership to make a difference, but if I ever do, I’ll repost it! As I said in the article, it’s a great way to cull undesirables. I lost subscribers minutes after I made the post, just as I knew I would.
This was so well written - it's the best response I've read thus far on this whole horrific debacle. Thank you, Charles, for the inescapable logic, passion, and empathy you put into this post.
Wow, thank you. I appreciate those kind words!
But trump allowed Rogan to promote his idea of fast-tracking approval of hallucinagenics as therapy. Maybe that's a good idea, honestly don't know.