I had exacly the same experience in Silicon Valley many many years ago. Went through all the remote interviews layer by layer, everyone was excited, then flew down (from Canada) for the in person with the whole team, walked into the room and everyone was talking. The room fell totally silent. The rest pretty much as you describe, except being desparate I didn’t think to walk out…
Thanks for sharing this. Every situation is so different. I was employed at the time, so definitely not desperate. That makes a huge difference. I don’t know how I would have reacted if I had not been employed, Based on how I "*felt** most times when I have been unemployed, I doubt I would have walked.
Probably a common story, especially in your line of work. It's hard for me not to see a real leadership problem here: the founder passed on asking questions, setting up the others to follow suit. Had there been some wisdom there, he/she would have asked some robust questions intended to set up the others present to probe deeper on those topics, or simply to signal that this was a serious interview. Seems like the leadership/management style did not translate to a successful way to run a business.
Solid remarks, thanks. I actually liked the guy. That’s probably why I couldn’t go harsh on them. I liked all of them on the phone interviews. Seemed like good kids, lol. I think you nailed it, and I think that it was just a lack of experience that led the CEO, who was quite young, to not have a grasp of those basic skills. Would I have had the same reaction they did if I worked in that environment at that age? Very possibly. That’s the thing about ageism. It’s subtle, not necessarily even evil like some other “isms.” It just sort of “is,” without people even being aware they’re participating in it.
It’s really discrimination in the guise of “ageism”. I’m sure your resume would have given them a lot of information based on your qualification timelines and all your rich experiences. I regret to say that, those “bunch of kids” were not really interviewing a potential candidate but just whiling their time and yours; it proved from the collapse of that company.
“The tech startup I interviewed with no longer exists.”
That makes me happy! Until I got to this part I planned on commenting I hope they went bankrupt. I would have felt the same way based on their reactions.
Thanks. Great points. Honestly, I think they just didn’t know better. I liked the CEO when we chatted on Zoom (or whatever the vid tech was at that time). He was just very green and unaware, as it turned out. I don’t hold any animosity or resentments toward any of them. They were just dumb kids. I was a dumb kid once, too. Now I’m a dumb old guy. We keep learning, or not, but the opportunities for learning never cease.
You dodged a bullet in many ways, but maybe the most shocking is their failure to glean anything from context!?!
Presumably you discussed your vast experience in all the first interviews. Experience=years. And presumably you submitted a resume that was seen by more than one person, and I assume that resume had a listing of your employment timeline and maybe even your educational history.
Failure to do basic math and gain context from that very standard employment document is just - too dumb. Not a surprise they didn't make it.
Thanks yeah, probably. They weren’t a bad bunch of kids. They were just… kids. Maybe with more to handle than they could. Mostly likely, by now, they’ve already figured out what you have just said. For me, it was more than a dodged bullet. I loved the place I ended up after that. They had a great appreciation for experience, and a great attitude toward work/life balance and equality.
Sometimes, ageism is so deeply embedded that prospective employers never consider the possibility that a well-qualified candidate isn't a contemporary.
I think a bigger problem among hiring managers in young companies is the dominance of risk-seeking over risk-aversion. With an old guy what-you-see-is-what-you-get, but also what-so-see-is-all-you-get. There's no potential glory in being "the guy who gave this superstar her start."
Good point, and there are times I’d argue that is a reasonable motive. A company like the one I interviewed at can’t be honest about that, because that would open them up to a lawsuit. Not from me, I wouldn’t bother, but someone else, for sure.
Had to instruct a learning ambassador that to stereotype “an older person standing there who’s confused by technology “ is the same as any other ism. And, the only difference between myself and you younger folks was that at much the first thing I do is eat. The younger ones check their phones. I informed her we know technology. We just put it in its place.
I often forgot where my office was, so there is that, lol. :-)
More seriously: I hate to quote Reagan, in fact, I may throw up a little in my mouth doing so, but sometimes he did offer good quips. He said something once like what you said about how younger folks make fun of us older folks by stating our lack of familiarity with certain tech, whereas the truth is that we invented that tech. I’m paraphrasing. Thanks for the comment!
Man, I feel this. After 32 +years of successfully being in the ad agency business, I move to Philly and applied to ad agencies and smaller companies who were looking for copywriters. Overqualified was the key word in virtually every interview. Talk about deflating. Then I went freelance...and now, while I would love more work, I'm done trying to sell myself. Younger people in my profession tend to be rather arrogant and always trying to prove themselves. I've been there done that. I'm just going back to Spain. 🙄
I hear ya about selling yourself. For me, it’s more about deadlines. They’re so arbitrary and senseless sometimes. And I’m burned out. And my eyes suck, which is not great for computer coding, no matter how big the font. Young people need our guidance, but not enough to want it. Maybe that’s an age old problem.
Don’t be surprised if, when you go to Spain, you see me pop out of your suitcase upon arrival, lol.
That made me angry. I'm an older person with a highly technical background and before leaving I would have said something like 'How is it you grew up in an era that recognises discrimination for what it is and yet you still managed to do this. You need to discuss what just happened here because until you do it will hang over you for the rest of the time you work here together.' I doubt if the discussion would have taken place but I'm sure a message like that would have indelibly etched itself on the minds of those present and I hope your story will likewise do that.
Thanks. I attribute it to general cluelessness. I wish I had had the courage to write the bottom sentence. That would have done the trick. The thing is, I didn't need the job. I was employed. I honestly didn't give a shit, so I left. Later I found a job with a group managed by someone who would have said exactly what you just wrote.
I resonate with you, Charles. I’ve had almost gruelling experiences with several government agencies where I live. Their initial reactions were always positive, with speeches coming from leads, supervisors etc saying, my ability to read codes and demonstrating which direction the code application was heading towards, from a business systems perspective, was invaluable blah, blah..and finally responding with “you don’t have the necessary security clearance” tag line, was always predictable and hilarious. 😆
Lmao, that company disappeared, talks a lot about their personal preferences (people, really), doesn’t matter whether you had written the first line or not ! Their loss and somebody else’s gain. 🙂
I had exacly the same experience in Silicon Valley many many years ago. Went through all the remote interviews layer by layer, everyone was excited, then flew down (from Canada) for the in person with the whole team, walked into the room and everyone was talking. The room fell totally silent. The rest pretty much as you describe, except being desparate I didn’t think to walk out…
Thanks for sharing this. Every situation is so different. I was employed at the time, so definitely not desperate. That makes a huge difference. I don’t know how I would have reacted if I had not been employed, Based on how I "*felt** most times when I have been unemployed, I doubt I would have walked.
Probably a common story, especially in your line of work. It's hard for me not to see a real leadership problem here: the founder passed on asking questions, setting up the others to follow suit. Had there been some wisdom there, he/she would have asked some robust questions intended to set up the others present to probe deeper on those topics, or simply to signal that this was a serious interview. Seems like the leadership/management style did not translate to a successful way to run a business.
Solid remarks, thanks. I actually liked the guy. That’s probably why I couldn’t go harsh on them. I liked all of them on the phone interviews. Seemed like good kids, lol. I think you nailed it, and I think that it was just a lack of experience that led the CEO, who was quite young, to not have a grasp of those basic skills. Would I have had the same reaction they did if I worked in that environment at that age? Very possibly. That’s the thing about ageism. It’s subtle, not necessarily even evil like some other “isms.” It just sort of “is,” without people even being aware they’re participating in it.
It’s really discrimination in the guise of “ageism”. I’m sure your resume would have given them a lot of information based on your qualification timelines and all your rich experiences. I regret to say that, those “bunch of kids” were not really interviewing a potential candidate but just whiling their time and yours; it proved from the collapse of that company.
“The tech startup I interviewed with no longer exists.”
That makes me happy! Until I got to this part I planned on commenting I hope they went bankrupt. I would have felt the same way based on their reactions.
Lol, thanks. I don’t know what happened to them. Now, I don’t even remember the name of the place.
Hahaha, I’d hope so too. Bankrupt can be interpreted as, loss of money as well as loss of all employees lol
I was disappointed that they didn’t call you back to explain themselves.
Recognising my own mistakes and fixing them promptly is one important way I learned.
When I saw people who believed that they couldn’t make mistakes or didn’t own up promptly it always led me to lose trust in them.
Thanks. Great points. Honestly, I think they just didn’t know better. I liked the CEO when we chatted on Zoom (or whatever the vid tech was at that time). He was just very green and unaware, as it turned out. I don’t hold any animosity or resentments toward any of them. They were just dumb kids. I was a dumb kid once, too. Now I’m a dumb old guy. We keep learning, or not, but the opportunities for learning never cease.
You dodged a bullet in many ways, but maybe the most shocking is their failure to glean anything from context!?!
Presumably you discussed your vast experience in all the first interviews. Experience=years. And presumably you submitted a resume that was seen by more than one person, and I assume that resume had a listing of your employment timeline and maybe even your educational history.
Failure to do basic math and gain context from that very standard employment document is just - too dumb. Not a surprise they didn't make it.
Thanks yeah, probably. They weren’t a bad bunch of kids. They were just… kids. Maybe with more to handle than they could. Mostly likely, by now, they’ve already figured out what you have just said. For me, it was more than a dodged bullet. I loved the place I ended up after that. They had a great appreciation for experience, and a great attitude toward work/life balance and equality.
More of this Charles! 😊👏🏼
Thanks, Vida. 🙂
Sometimes, ageism is so deeply embedded that prospective employers never consider the possibility that a well-qualified candidate isn't a contemporary.
I think a bigger problem among hiring managers in young companies is the dominance of risk-seeking over risk-aversion. With an old guy what-you-see-is-what-you-get, but also what-so-see-is-all-you-get. There's no potential glory in being "the guy who gave this superstar her start."
Good point, and there are times I’d argue that is a reasonable motive. A company like the one I interviewed at can’t be honest about that, because that would open them up to a lawsuit. Not from me, I wouldn’t bother, but someone else, for sure.
Had to instruct a learning ambassador that to stereotype “an older person standing there who’s confused by technology “ is the same as any other ism. And, the only difference between myself and you younger folks was that at much the first thing I do is eat. The younger ones check their phones. I informed her we know technology. We just put it in its place.
The problem with ageism is the part where they forget where the office they work in came from. Who built it?
Someone who came before them.
I often forgot where my office was, so there is that, lol. :-)
More seriously: I hate to quote Reagan, in fact, I may throw up a little in my mouth doing so, but sometimes he did offer good quips. He said something once like what you said about how younger folks make fun of us older folks by stating our lack of familiarity with certain tech, whereas the truth is that we invented that tech. I’m paraphrasing. Thanks for the comment!
Man, I feel this. After 32 +years of successfully being in the ad agency business, I move to Philly and applied to ad agencies and smaller companies who were looking for copywriters. Overqualified was the key word in virtually every interview. Talk about deflating. Then I went freelance...and now, while I would love more work, I'm done trying to sell myself. Younger people in my profession tend to be rather arrogant and always trying to prove themselves. I've been there done that. I'm just going back to Spain. 🙄
I hear ya about selling yourself. For me, it’s more about deadlines. They’re so arbitrary and senseless sometimes. And I’m burned out. And my eyes suck, which is not great for computer coding, no matter how big the font. Young people need our guidance, but not enough to want it. Maybe that’s an age old problem.
Don’t be surprised if, when you go to Spain, you see me pop out of your suitcase upon arrival, lol.
Thats so damne true about how young people need our experience/guidance but not enough to want it. UGH.
COME TO MADRID! By November, you’ll be ready to roll! ❤️❤️
That made me angry. I'm an older person with a highly technical background and before leaving I would have said something like 'How is it you grew up in an era that recognises discrimination for what it is and yet you still managed to do this. You need to discuss what just happened here because until you do it will hang over you for the rest of the time you work here together.' I doubt if the discussion would have taken place but I'm sure a message like that would have indelibly etched itself on the minds of those present and I hope your story will likewise do that.
Thanks. I attribute it to general cluelessness. I wish I had had the courage to write the bottom sentence. That would have done the trick. The thing is, I didn't need the job. I was employed. I honestly didn't give a shit, so I left. Later I found a job with a group managed by someone who would have said exactly what you just wrote.
How much time did you spend on the island compared to the rest of Spain? How long were you in Madrid?
I resonate with you, Charles. I’ve had almost gruelling experiences with several government agencies where I live. Their initial reactions were always positive, with speeches coming from leads, supervisors etc saying, my ability to read codes and demonstrating which direction the code application was heading towards, from a business systems perspective, was invaluable blah, blah..and finally responding with “you don’t have the necessary security clearance” tag line, was always predictable and hilarious. 😆
Last second extra analysis they were providing!
Guess who is going to be surprised when/if they grow old? I know I was completely shocked when it happened to me. It was ... unexpected.
I wish you'd written your first sentence so they'd know where they messed up and learn from it.
..not that they seemed interested in learning anything.
Right, they will be shocked when they find it happening to them.
Lmao, that company disappeared, talks a lot about their personal preferences (people, really), doesn’t matter whether you had written the first line or not ! Their loss and somebody else’s gain. 🙂
* thanks, I meant. Phone app doesn't let me edit a comment .
Thai. That's the only way to look at it. Same in your case, I'm sure.